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 Post subject: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Well I thought to ask this question because I wanted to get fans reactions.
Both movies are similar and are made to a certain standard. That being Superman and Batman functioning in the real world.
So which one was better ?
Which movie stands out the best as the first in their respective movies. Granted Batman had three and Superman for now only has the one.
That's why I only want to compare the first ones in the series. Which one was the better movie Batman begins or Man of Steel ?

My vote goes to Man of Steel !

They took Superman to another level. They did away with the now cliched version of Donner's Krypton. And Jor-El is now more of a man of action and passion rather then Marlon Brando's dispassionate Jor-El.
Kevin Costner puts another spin on a Very human Jonathon Kent who only wants to protect his son.

Henry Cavill nails it as a young man who is confused bout which way he should go. And Finds his path in a moment of great Crisis.

Zod is more well rounded thenthe singluar dimensional Zod as portrayed by Terence Stamp. Here Zod is more fleshed out made more human so we can understand his goals better. He's more of a villian then Stamp's Zod. Shannon's Zod is a world killer.

Batman Begins
Took the ORigin story and stood it on it's ear.
Bruce Wayne is shown to be a wounded person with no path except one and that's vengence until he's made to realize killing Joe Chill Can' fix or solve anything. So he goes and tries to find a path that'll help him find the answers he needs and the path he must follow that'll lead to Batman.
It made Bruce Wayne more human more likable then the other movies or even the comics.

Ra's Al Ghul is shown to be a cold calculating sun Tzu type of man. His beliefs that the world must be be destroyed in order to save it are chilling.
He wants one city to be a example so he chose Gotham. Life means everything and nothing to him. Everything in that his big picture concerns saving the world period. Nothing in regard to he's goingto kill thousands if not millions to save the planet. He's wealthy and got incredible resources. He's a would be saviour that's cold blooded.

Thomas Wayne shows Bruce the most important lesson he'll ever learn If you fall pick yourself up.

Jor-El and Jonathon Kent Teach Clark one thing and that is it's up to him to choose what he wants to be. but he must take responsbilty for his actions and whatever he chooses to be he must do it for the right reasons. not because people tell him he can but because it's right.

Rachel Shows Bruce the major diffrence between Justice and the Law and that Vengence is neither.
Lois Shows Clark that people are worth fighting for and that he can make a difference for the better he is hope.

Storywise Batman begins had the more rounded out story and chracterization.
Man of Steel had the bigger menace and justwent into the action. The chracters already fully realized.

I like Batman begins because it shows the road to Batman and in the end it shows us the Batman we need.

In Man of Steel it takes a confused young man with powers beyond imagination and turns him into a hero we can trust. The Superman we deserve.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:36 pm 
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It's like choosing between my sons! Surprisingly though I think Man of Steel just about edges it.
I love Batman Begins but at times the initial pacing seems a little off and we don't quite see enough of Batman being Batman.
MOS starts with a bang I thought this version of Krypton was amongst the very best and Crowe was surprisingly good as Jor-El.
MOS also has a better climax, (boy does it deliver on the action).

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Between Superman & Batman, my favorite always have been Batman.

But I say that Man of Steel is the BEST hero movie ever.



[joker] [classicharleyquinn]

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:18 am 
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I'd say Man of Steel. I think they did a great job with Krypton (though it didn't seem as futuristic, it showed Kal's parents a lot more and in a more caring light). The action was the absolute best in any Superman movie (maybe even comic book movie). I think the plot and villain were better than Begins. The pacing felt better too. Both have a long build up, but in MOS it felt better.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:52 am 
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I'll have to go with Batman Begins.

There were some things that really bugged me in Man of Steel, but not many in Batman Begins.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:24 am 
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Both are great.

But gots to go with Man of Steel.

Bravo to Snyder who tried a fresh approach to Superman in the movies and television. And it paid off big, big time.

The directing, the script, the production design, cinematography, special effects, costumes (this version of S-Man's costume is VISUALLY AWESOME - wish the comics would copy the open neck look!) - but most especially the cast - everyone from Cavill right down to the guy who played irritating Steve Lombard - they're all perfect.

I can't wait to see it again.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:05 am 
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I vote for Batman Begins.

I think that, in order for a film to take itself very seriously, it has to be really good. Like, airtight. Nolan's Batman films are solid, so they can take themselves as seriously as they wish.

Man of Steel also tried to take itself really seriously. But, when you do that and don't do it perfectly, it comes off as corny. There were a few scenes in Man of Steel that I chuckled at that were not meant to be funny. To avoid this, they probably should had went the route of the recent Marvel films, which poke self-deprecating humor at themselves when they need to. At least, that way, I'm laughing with them, and not at them. I laughed at Superman too much in this film.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:06 pm 
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I loved Man of Steel, but I don't think Snyder is quite in Nolan's league as an artistic voice. Yes continuity issues have ever been a problem with Nolan's films... even in his masterpiece, Memento. But lets not miss the forest for the trees.

When it was released, what set Batman Begins apart from others in this genre was its intelligent explorations of theme. The story and character motivations are all driven by - and serve the grand idea: About the nature of justice, faith, grace -- about the personality of a broken city and what it will take to restore it. Gotham is every bit a character in this movie as are the people who populate it. And at the center of this city stands Bruce Wayne. In Begins we watch a hero being born -- and he is one of the most multifaceted figures ever seen in a superflick. That nuanced personality was forged not only by the psychological trauma sustained in his youth, but also by the people who were/are apart of his life: Be it the compassion of his father, the wisdom in Alfred, the integrity in Gordon -- and at opposite ends of the Justice pole, Rachel Dawes and Ra's al Ghul. While Rachel is sanctimonious to the point of being irritating, she and the rest (along with the tech help from Lucius Fox) are integral in creating the dark night detective.

Batman Begins works because -in addition to the cool gadgets and vehicles and heart stopping action- it takes time to develop its characters and explore its themes (an element which will become more pronounced in The Dark Knight). And that made a mere comic book movie, something more than a mere comic book movie.

Man of Steel is great, and bigger than life. It's breathtaking in a way the street level Batman could never be. Still, it owes a debt to Batman in terms of taking an idea/an event (or 2 or 3) and having it inform the actions of the protagonist (and young Clark isn't simply whining about not being able to play football, in MOS the stakes are upped to matters of life and death). I love Man of Steel, and Snyder and the screenwriters are to be commended. But Nolan did it first and IMHO Nolan did it better.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:57 pm 
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I think I'd need to see both back-to-back especially as it has been a little while since I saw "Batman Begins." I think they did a great job with Superman. Even with special FX, I think it is still harder to make a good Superman movie (just as I think it is harder to write a good Superman story than a Batman one) than almost any other super hero movie. For Superman, there's the powers, there's the respect necessary for the hero, there's the iconic aspect of the hero, there's getting Clark right, and more. I think the monkeying around with Clark's origins and life on the Kent farm was less drastic than Bruce's origins and, especially, the relationship with Ra's. Overall, on the top of my head and going with the memory of the Bat movie, I'll go with MOS.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Another thing I prefer in Nolan's films is that the action scenes are never overblown. Nolan doesn't just say, "lets have them punch each other for about 15 minutes in this point of the film, until something happens to either advance the plot or reveal characterization," like Snyder seems to. All of the fight scenes in Nolan's Batman serve to build the story.

Take Batman Begins, for example. The last fight between him and Ra's al Ghul is really about whether or not Bruce Wayne will adopt Ra's values, or Rachel's. In the end, he takes some in-between road by not killing Ra's, but not bothering to save him. This scene lasts as long as it needs to. It doesn't go on and on for ever. And, the thing that solves the conflict, Gordon blowing out the tracks and Batman damaging the train's controls, make sense, on a practical level and a symbolic. The practical: it simply makes sense, because the audience is plainly aware that the doomsday microwave machine is being carried on the city's monorail, so it makes sense that destroying that saves the day. How it works on a symbolic level: we understand what this train represents in Batman's world. It's his father's legacy, but, unfortunately, Batman, throughout the film, has to deny his family name, the Wayne part of himself, to become Batman. The irony is that the mission he went on in his parents' memory necessitates not being the person his parents would have likely wanted to see him be.

Now, the action scenes in Man of Steel, most of them just felt like action scenes for the sake of action scenes to me. Superman punching bad guys with different scenery, for what felt like half the film. Most of these fight scenes did little to move the story forward, or to add to characterization. The single fight scene that did add to characterization was the last one between Superman and Zod, where the former snaps the latter's neck, showing what kind of person Superman is. Other than that, it was just lots of zipping around and breaking things.
The magic maguffin at the end of the film wasn't as effective as the microwave emitter in Batman Begins, either. Neither device is solidly scientific, but in Batman Begins, the we understand the internal logic of how the device works before Batman figures out a plausible way to destroy it. In Man of Steel, we are simply told by Superman that crashing two crafts with the same energy source somehow gets rid of them both. We don't know why. We don't know how he knows this. He just tells us so that they can have a scene of crashing spaceships, and then have the villains magically disappear. The internal logic for how it works was not set soundly enough to make it believable. Superman just says "crash them together," and that's what they do.

The fight scenes pretty much show the difference between Nolan and Snyder. Nolan makes more artistically-nuanced films. Snyder is not as bad as Michael Bay, but he's definitely within the same camp of putting spectacle before story, and having the story as just a cracking plastic cup to fill with spectacle, rather than having the spectacle complement the story and vice-versa.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:01 am 
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To the surprise of no one who read my earlier posts on the topic, I'd say Batman Begins was better in about every regard.

It was truer to the character, made more internal sense, and was better executed.

Mind you, if you had asked the last of those Batman movies, I'm not sure what I'd have said.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:28 pm 
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To the surprise of no one who read my earlier posts on the topic, I'd say Batman Begins was better in about every regard.

It was truer to the character, made more internal sense, and was better executed.

Mind you, if you had asked the last of those Batman movies, I'm not sure what I'd have said.

this Batman and this Superman were in different universes than the ones we've read. Their essentials were the same but many nuances were not - like with virtually every comic book movie ever. Given that, I think the parts of both characters that HAD TO BE in the movies were in the movies and properly done.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:14 pm 
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To the surprise of no one who read my earlier posts on the topic, I'd say Batman Begins was better in about every regard.

It was truer to the character, made more internal sense, and was better executed.

Mind you, if you had asked the last of those Batman movies, I'm not sure what I'd have said.

this Batman and this Superman were in different universes than the ones we've read. Their essentials were the same but many nuances were not - like with virtually every comic book movie ever. Given that, I think the parts of both characters that HAD TO BE in the movies were in the movies and properly done.


That is all true, but some of the changes in Man of Steel made me actively not like Superman.

As a comparison, Bruce bringing a gun to avenge his parents is very un-Batman, but I could accept it as a different take on the character. And I could see it as something someone in a similar situation might actually do.

But the scene in MoS where Clark just lets his father die is not only un-Superman, but unlike anything a reasonable person in that situation would do. I just makes him look like a pathetic, selfish, wuss.

Then he just bums around until he's 33. Sure, he saves a few people here and there, but he mostly just hiding like a frightened, selfish jerk. Given the way he just decides to be a reporter at the end of movie makes it seem like he never even went to Journalism school. And it didn't seem like he was writing stories on the road during his travels either. So I'm not sure how he is even qualified for a job at the Daily Planet. I mean it is possible he did something during the unseen years, but there is nothing to indicate that he did either.

When Zod and the others attack the farm he grabs Zod and flies him away, leaving Martha with his thugs.

And of course, he does very little to try to draw fights away from innocent people.

While the scene with the semi truck was funny it really was petty and not a proportional response.

So while I can see this take as a new imaging of Superman the same as Nolan's new Batman, I really dislike this Superman as a character in ways that I didn't dislike Batman. (At least until he took his 8 year pity-party)

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:33 pm 
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I agree with most of what you said. While both Nolan's Batman films and Snyder's Superman films made changes from the source material, Nolan's changes were more superficial, with the basic character staying true to the character of the comics.

Snyder's Superman is a pretty different person from the one of the comics.

Both the Batman comic are about a boy who sees his parents die, and goes on a mission to prevent it from happening to anyone else. Not out of vengeance, but out of concern for others. The beginning of the first film toys with the idea of vengeance, but Bruce learns that justice is better than vengeance.

While the Superman comic is about a man with amazing powers who feels he must use them for good, Snyder's film is about a man who seems to be trying to get away from his abilities, and only uses them when circumstances compel him to, rather than actively seeking out people to help. He doesn't even really become a superhero until Zod threatens the world if he doesn't come out. It's more like the Superman: Earth One alternate version of the character, than the one of the mainstream comics, whom I find a more compelling character.

Although, I have to disagree about the scene where Clark trashes the truck. That was one of the few scenes I really liked. Reminded me of the Golden Age Superman, where he'd be a bit more fiery. But, the way I see it, he wasn't doing it because he felt offended for himself, he did it because he felt offended for the woman the trucker was harassing. The Golden Age Superman often did vindictive things, but rarely for himself: he seemed to avenge people less powerful than him only.

But, yeah, all that other stuff you mentioned, IMO, are spot on. Clark leaving Faora and that other dude with Martha, punching Kryptonians into Sears and other inhabited buildings... in fact, I'm pretty sure Superman punched Zod into the building where he killed the bystanders. Nice job, hero. And, he didn't spend much time saving anyone who wasn't Lois Lane or those military folks, even when Metropolis looked like a lot of people must had been seriously hurt. No, instead he sticks around to kiss Lois Lane, in a romance that wasn't even realistically built up in this film, and makes a poorly-written joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Man of Steel VS Batman Begins
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Even with special FX, I think it is still harder to make a good Superman movie (just as I think it is harder to write a good Superman story than a Batman one) than almost any other super hero movie.


This to me is the central point, and why MOS did so well.

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